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                         WE WOULD DiE FOR COMMODoRE

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                ACID SLAM - HIDDIN FOR YEARS, STILL NOT FOUND!

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                       RuNNiNG /X 3.38  aMIGa, pD & iNTERNEt

		   Uploaded at: 14:43:02 on: 01-Oct-94

                   By: BRUTUS         On node: 0    

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       di                                                         *!
       P                      No.s AnD NUP!

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 Y    Y \        ,|      /     //     Y     
 !    :  \  ______|___  /|___ ,/      !PrSc!
 :    .   \/ pReSeNtS \/     \/!      :     
«««««  LsD lIvEs On - ReAd ThE tRuTh   »»»»»
@END_FILE_ID.DIZ

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                !    :  \  ______|___  /|___ ,/      !PrSc!
                :    .   \/ pReSeNtS \/     \/!      :     
               «««««  LsD lIvEs On - ReAd ThE tRuTh   »»»»»



                         LSD - WHATS GOING ON?

Before we start, we just wanna say we hate text file wars, but we do want 
the right of reply before incorrect news is reported in diskmags etc.  
This file is to cover two things, the facts about LSD, and the truth 
about the CD.  This is the First and Last statement regarding this 
situation, as far as we are concerned its all over.  We wouldn`t blame
any sysop for nuking this file, along with the mis-informed files by EX4.

Theres been a couple of text files about, forst stating that LSD are dead, 
then stating that all members have returned to LSD.  Lets tell the true 
story.  As you may have read, Pazza and Mub of LSD are working on a PD CD 
collection that will be on sale soon.  First 2-Cool and The Art of LSD 
tried getting Fish to do their dirty work for them.  Not being the kind 
of people who give in to unreasnable demands, the answer was a firm NO!
Then 2-Cool and The Art decided to form a new crew called Experiment 4, 
and get all LSD members to join.  Unfortunatly some dirty tricks where 
needed, so they decided to ring up many LSD members saying "LSD are dead, 
so your in EX4".  Most members that they could contact originally believed 
them, and accepted membership.

What followed was a text file stating that "LSD are dead", all members are
now in EX4, and a huge slagging of the nine-month CD project.  According to 
2-Cools calculations Pazza and Mub stood to make 60,000 UK pounds profit, 
from sales of 20,000 CD`s!

Sadly (for Pazza and Mub!) this was an exageration of sales.  Now lets 
tell the CD story...

In 1993 Pazza discussed with 17-Bit software an idea about the production 
of a CD-Rom, Pazza got Shagratt and Mub together to compile the CD, Pazza 
did the file collection and Shagratt was to code the menu system, Mub did 
the final compiling and trouble-shooting.  The other LSD members knew about 
this and KNEW they would make money from this, the CD was never a secret, 
they had talked about it openly since January 1994.  

Further into the project Shagratt dropped out due to other commitments, so 
they asked another LSD member, Oedipus to code the menu system, they agreed 
a fair payment for the menu and everything worked out, but again we were 
let down by him because of other commitments [We know you tried hard Joe, 
time wasn`t on your side, Pazza!], so then after a discussion they decided
it seemed the only two people who seemed 100% dedicated to the CD project 
was themselves.  

Pazza suggested Amiga.guide as a menu format, Mub coded an amigaguide menu 
creator!  So 9 months, and 3 masters later they have just got the glass 
CD cut done, which costs 1,000 UK pounds (A good deal, it can cost up to 
1,500!).  Mub has also paid out for the hard drive (600 quid!), lots of 
travelling to Leicester and Wakefield, artwork, legal advice, and all the 
other misc bills, out of his OWN pocket, they will be suprised if they see 
a return on their initial outlay this year.  

What Pazza and Mub have learnt from this project is that once the hard 
work is over, some people start pulling out their little begging bowls.
Were where 2-Cool and The Art when the WORK was being done?  Two LSD 
programmers let them down - addmitadly through no fault of their own - But 
they daren`t take it to 2-Cool, who did seem to be the man for the menu-
loader for the CD, because of his track record in taking soooo long to 
release something (we realise you are a perfectionist Trevor, this is not 
an attack on your coding abilities).  They where left with two weeks to 
come up with a menu, they did it, just, a lot of sleep and Mubs hair was 
lost, he`ll turn grey any day!

And now onto the money...

So 2-Cool and The Art think that 20,000 CD`s will be sold!  Pazza and Mub 
keen to find out where they get their figures for your marketing 
predictions from.  We ASSUME their saying that someone sold 20,000 CD`s so
they will too.  That`s like starting a pop group and saying you will sell
millions because Pink Floyd did!

And another point, if 20,000 copies of the CD are sold, they`ll be jumping
through hoops of fire naked, with their bodies smeared in lard singing the
national anthem backwards, while smoking a joint that would even 
frighten Echo (and that`s BIG!), or so they claim!  I think you get the 
idea.  The initial run is 19,000 LESS THEN THEY CLAIM, a measly 1,000, if 
they`re lucky there will be another 1,000 pressed before Xmas!

So they still say we will make 60 grand?  Ok heres the challenge to you 
clever little boys, after all, they predict huge sales - produce a PD CD 
collection, make sure there is very little repetition between your CD and 
ANY that are already available for the Amiga.  Do all the work, pay out 
the cash where necessary, THEN MAKE 60,000 PROFIT, THEN PAY ANYONE THAT 
HOLDS THEIR HAND OUT WHAT THEY THINK THEY ARE OWED!  It must be so easy, 
after all their market projections predict it!

And what about money for LSD?

Pazza and Mub state quite clearly that they will not be blackmailed, and
quite rightly so!  Let me put this another way, they have made no deal 
whatsoever with LSD, no bribes, no backhanders, nothing.  If they do 
decide to make a donation to the crew it will be happily recieved, but 
that`s up to them.  Under 2-Cool`s thinking any trader that sells wares 
owes his group money, and sysop that sells a leech account owes his crew 
money, any member that sells PD to a PD library owes his crew money - 
BULLSHIT - Many group members of all groups worldwide do this!  Under 
this philosophy we understand that 2-Cool will be donating a persentage 
of any money he makes from shareware donations for Swift to his group, 
Karl Marx would be very proud of you Trevor!

A word about Public Domain...

Public Domain is free, but you have to pay for the media it is on, either
floppy-disk, CD, or a leech account on (or phonebill for) a BBS.  Lets take
Grapevine as an example.  It comes on 3 disks, and most PD libraries charge 
you 3 pounds for the 3 disks.  If you where to purchase issues 10 to 19, it 
would cost you 30 quid.  Our CD gives you all the LSD legal releases 
(except a few missing ones we`re looking for), plus a shitload of other 
stuff for only 20 UK pounds.  And you get a total of 660 meg of files on it, 
if you can`t find something of interest on there you must be dead!  What`s 
more, for those of you who hate PD libraries charging huge sums for your 
releases, on CD`s their not even charging a penny because of the bulk of 
material!  Whats more, as CD`s get more and more popular, PD libraries may
even stop distributing PD on floppies, as they`ll come on a PD CD - 660 
meg for 20 quid, hopefully the prices of PD CD`s will drop in the future!

There are other important things about CD`s to remember.  Everything put 
on a CD lives on, if its a picture or a tune, other computers can generally
load it too.  In 20 years time the Amiga as it stands today will be 
compared to ZX-81 standards now.  But someone can use it if they so wish,
all the disks may be gone over but a CD is a perminant archive.  After all
how long do most of you keep a demo?  This way you can keep hundreds of 
them, for a small outlay.

Ok, enough preaching about CD`s, onto the important stuff, LSD!

LSD is not "Publicaly Copyrighted" whatever that means, a made up slogan?) 
to Pazza, LIES!  LIES!  LIES!  If you bother to research the copyright 
rulings you will find out why it couldn`t be!

Unfortanatly 2-Cool conned a lot of people, he INCORRECTLY BELIEVED he was 
speaking for LSD when he started crying about the CD, then he conned many
members into joining EX4 by telling them LSD was dead.  Then to add insult
to injury, he started TELLING people they where members, instead of asking 
them.  Then he even added LSD members to the EX4 member list WITHOUT ASKING 
THEM.  He decided the name of EX4, despite people arguing that they didn`t 
like it.  The diskmag, name was pre-determined by him.  He then added some 
ex-Dimension X members to EX4, after speaking to the Assasin, he told LSD
that he wasn`t realy interested in being in ANY group.  It seems 2-Cool 
has done a LOT of assuming.

When the LSD members found out that LSD was very much alive, everyone 
couldn`t rejoin quick enough!  Why?  Because we don`t push our members 
around, we don`t demand things off each other.  We are democratic, many
aspects of management are discussed with non-management members if a policy
decision is to be made.  Because LSD is not just Pazza`s group, its run by 
Fish, Pazza and Rad!, it goes back many many years, many members have been
such for years.  We are friends.  WE DONT LIE TO EACH OTHER TO GET OUR OWN
WAY!

As of LSD members, it seems that of the 25+ members 2-Cool listed as 
having left, when the truth was revieled to them, only TWO members have 
actually left - 2-Cool and The Art.  Some revision is to be made to the 
member-list, we have added a few members and are to kick some long-time 
inactive members.  More info will be released in the future.

As a final comment, it appears 2-Cool wasn`t in it for so much as personal 
gain, but for gain of the group as a whole.  Sadly he gave his tactics 
little thought, using more tact and finding the balls to call Pazza 
instead of laying his problems at Fish`s feet, more could have been 
achieved and possibly understood by both sides.

As to Expreiment 4 - LSD wish 2-Cool and The Art luck, we sincerely hope
they find what they are looking for in a group, and hope they run it in a
less farcical way in the future.  

A final message from Pazza - Trevor, I have been in management since 1988,
I have learnt a lot of things about running groups, some of the most 
important are - 

 DONT lie to your members.
 TREAT them like human beings, not like sheep.
 Wear Kid-gloves when managing, NOT STORMTROOPERS BOOTS!

LSD - Alive and kicking
LSD - Never dead.
LSD - Alive well after Experiment 4 is forgotten!


                              Pazza/FisH/Rad of LSD 30th August 1994






bbs adds follow!
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       ][             ThEn U BeTTeR tRY AnD FiNd ThE             @@
       di                                                         *!
       P                      No.s AnD NUP!


                      >>> Sat Oct 01 00:33:17 1994 <<<

           - -( TeXTADD'O'MaNIA Vo.o2 - bY fAKTOR/mAXiMA '94 )- -


 _____________________________________________________________________________

       On it's journey around the globe, this file passed through: 
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                 /          /__\   \            /  \     /              
 _ _________    /___ _     /    \   \  /    \  /   /    / Co: ConStRiCtOr
    \     \/   /   / /    (     /   /\/     /\/\  /    /
     \     \   \  /  \     \   /   / /     /    \/    /      68030/ 240MB
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_ _ ____\     \/        \/\_____/  \____/\___/\___/     \    :   :      
         \     \============================ /___________\   ¦   ¦ ______ _
     /\   \____/______     _____  ______                     |   ||     
_ __/  \_______/_____/____/____/_/      \_____    __  _______|__ ||    _ _
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/     /     \    /  / /    /  /   /    /\____\/    /   \     /  \__   |
\  __/______/   /__/_/    /__/   /\___/oo    /    /_____\   /|   ||   |
 \/      /     /    /    /   \__/      /\$kYhAwK /   \_____/ |___||   |
        /     /    /    /            ..\/..    \/                 ¦   ¦
       / __  /    /    /                                          :   :
       \/  \/     \___/  +31(0)43-477975     +31(0)43-478564
                       RuNNiNG /X 3.38  aMIGa, pD & iNTERNEt
                                                     [A¡RaDDer v3.1 By A¡Rcø]